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Evolutie, evolutionism, evolutionism teist, Darwin: Etern ereziarh sau Sfant protector al adevarului?
Despre originea vietuitoarelor
Care varianta reuseste sa va convinga mai mult decat celelalte ca reflecta realitatea?
Creationismul (incluzand aici Intelligent Design si alte interpretari incluse in mod obisnuit sub umbrela creationismului) [ 14 ] ** [42.42%]
Evolutionismul (asa cum este formulat in zilele noastre) [ 10 ] ** [30.30%]
Un hibrid intre primele doua teorii (cum sunt si formele in care este cunoscut evolutionismul teist) [ 5 ] ** [15.15%]
Alta teorie (nenumita mai sus, insuficient cunoscuta pe scara larga, sau de fabricatie proprie) [ 4 ] ** [12.12%]
Total Votes: 38
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study_nature
post Mar 10 2011, 10:05 PM
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QUOTE
P.S. [...] Simple calculations imply that there are something like 10^20 = 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 E. coli alive on our planet at any moment. Even if they divide just once per day, and given a typical mutation rate of 10^-9 or 10^-10 per base-pair per generation, then pretty much every possible double mutation would occur every day or so. That’s a lot of opportunity for evolution.
P.P.S. I hope that some readers might get a chuckle out of this story. The same Sunday (15 June 2008) that you and some of your acolytes were posting and promoting scurrilous attacks on me and our research (wasn’t that a bit disrespectful of the Sabbath?), I was in a church attending a wedding. And do you know what Old Testament lesson was read? It was Genesis 1:27-28, in which God created Man and Woman. It’s a very simple and lovely story, and I did not ask any questions, storm out, or demand the evidence that it happened as written at a time when science did not yet exist. I was there in the realm of spirituality and mutual respect, not confusing a house of religion for a science class or laboratory. And it was a beautiful wedding, too.
P.P.P.S. You may be unable to understand, or unwilling to accept, that evolution occurs. And yet, life evolves! [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_pur_si_muove From the content on your website, it is clear that you, like many others, view God as the Creator of the Universe. I respect that view. I find it baffling, however, that someone can worship God as the all-mighty Creator while, at the same time, denying even the possibility (not to mention the overwhelming evidence) that God’s Creation involved evolution. It is as though a person thinks that God must have the same limitations when it comes to creation as a person who is unable to understand, or even attempt to understand, the world in which we live. Isn’t that view insulting to God?
[...]


Daca va intrebati care ar putea fi ocazia si schimbul de replici care sa prilejuiasca aceste observatii, sa stiti ca ele reprezinta finalul unui schimb de mesaje intre un om de stiinta si un creationist trandav referitor la articolul celui dintai, avand titlul "Historical contingency and the evolution of a key innovation in an experimental population of Escherichia coli" (pdf complet aici).


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Mar 19 2011, 03:46 PM
Post #142


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Autorul fragmentului de scrisoare citat in postarea anterioara se numeste Richard E Lenski si are niste cercetari care au adus si aduc roade.

O echipa condusa de Lenski a publicat recent un articol in Science (rezumat) din care reiese ca potentialul de adaptare al unei tulpini este cel care ii asigura succesul pe termen lung, chiar daca pe termen scurt acea tulpina este mai putin capabila decat o alta (care pana la urma va disparea):

QUOTE
Surprisingly, two clones with beneficial mutations that would eventually take over the population had significantly lower competitive fitness than two clones with mutations that later went extinct. By replaying evolution many times from these clones, we showed that the eventual winners likely prevailed because they had greater potential for further adaptation. Genetic interactions that reduce the benefit of certain regulatory mutations in the eventual losers appear to explain, at least in part, why they were outcompeted.


Deoarece articolul din Science nu este disponibil gratuit, includ si acest scurt comentariu pertinent asupra cercetarilor respective.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Apr 2 2011, 06:22 PM
Post #143


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Un articol din Science aparut in prima jumatate a lunii martie 2011 arata ca pattern-ul uman de imbatranire nu este atat de unic precum se credea, senescenta umana avand multe asemanari cu cea a primatelor. Articolul nu este disponibil integral, asa ca iata rezumatul:

QUOTE
Human senescence patterns—late onset of mortality increase, slow mortality acceleration, and exceptional longevity—are often described as unique in the animal world. Using an individual-based data set from longitudinal studies of wild populations of seven primate species, we show that contrary to assumptions of human uniqueness, human senescence falls within the primate continuum of aging; the tendency for males to have shorter life spans and higher age-specific mortality than females throughout much of adulthood is a common feature in many, but not all, primates; and the aging profiles of primate species do not reflect phylogenetic position. These findings suggest that mortality patterns in primates are shaped by local selective forces rather than phylogenetic history.


Din fericire, tot pe site-ul revistei Science, exista transcript-ul unui podcast care, incepand de la pagina 8, include interviul luat lui Susan C Alberts, conducatoarea cercetarii (pdf).

Apropo, revista Science isi centralizeaza toate articolele si materialele referitoare la evolutie aici.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Apr 19 2011, 05:18 PM
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sursa: un comentariu de pe O2 (imi cer scuze pentru calitatea slaba a imaginii)


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Apr 20 2011, 12:40 AM
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Ii invit pe creationisti sa incerce sa ii rastoarne pe acesti 4 sinoptici si sa propuna un model alternativ viabil.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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Ianis
post Apr 20 2011, 12:51 AM
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dar oare arheologia, genetica, microbiologia si lingvistica nu sunt de la cel rau?smile.gif

Interesant studiul. Pana la urma era de asteptat ca rezultatele si concluziile celor patru sa coincida


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Iím afraid to be alive without being aware of it
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polihronu
post May 5 2011, 06:36 AM
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O punere in scena destul de convingatoare:



--------------------
"Omul care spune adevarul din cinism este un mincinos" - Bonhoeffer
"Onestitatea intelectuala este o conditie necesara a fericirii" - Paine
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study_nature
post May 6 2011, 12:35 AM
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'Death and Science: The Existential Underpinnings of Belief in Intelligent Design and Discomfort with Evolution'

Asa se numeste un nou articol aparut in revista PLoS One care este open-acces, asa ca puteti citi articolul integral.

O prezentare a rezultatelor continute in articol:

QUOTE
Across four studies, hundreds of participants - including psychology students, a diverse sample of US adults, and natural science students - either imagined their own death or a visit to the dentist (used as a control condition), and then read either a short description of ID or of evolutionary theory. They then rated the value and evidence for the theory they'd read about.

[...]

For the diverse adult sample, thoughts of death were enough to turn people against evolutionary theory, with its mechanistic account of life, and to turn them on to ID, with its appealing idea of a superior intelligence. These effects held regardless of the participants' religious status or educational background.

Finally, for the natural science students, for whom evolutionary theory is a vital part of their identity and world-view, thoughts of death actually led to them to subscribe more strongly to this theory, presumably because they were able to find solace in its elegant explanatory power and vision. This fits with Terror Management Theory and its findings, which show that people respond to the fear of death by entrenching their cultural world view.

Further support for the idea that evolutionary theory has the potential to be a source of existential comfort came from a fifth study, in which psych students additionally read a poetic account by Carl Sagan of science, and the meaning it gives to life. Reading Sagan's account led these psych students to respond to thoughts of death just like natural science students, by subscribing more strongly to evolutionary theory and derogating ID.


sursa


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Jun 26 2011, 12:58 PM
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O colectie de resurse despre evolutie:

QUOTE
Understanding Evolution is a non-commercial, education website, teaching the science and history of evolutionary biology. This site is here to help you understand what evolution is, how it works, how it factors into your life, how research in evolutionary biology is performed, and how ideas in this area have changed over time.
Credits
This site is a collaborative project of the University of California Museum of Paleontology and the National Center for Science Education.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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skeptic
post Jul 5 2011, 06:32 AM
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Pe O2, EdiC a incins atomosfera cu vreo cateva postari si comentarii pe tema evolutiei. Printre altele, o postare-replica la un articol mai vechi al lui FL din ST, urmata de un raspuns al lui FL si de o noua postare a lui Edi.


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skeptic
post Aug 5 2011, 08:08 AM
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Despre imperfectiunile designului corpului uman aici. Si 10 semne ale evolutiei tot pe acelasi blog.


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study_nature
post Sep 10 2011, 09:07 PM
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QUOTE (Martin Luther @ Oct 30 2010, 08:52 PM) *
Baieti, poate ma ajutati un pic. L-am auzit mai demult pe Edi cum vorbea despre datarea cu gps-ul a oaselor de dinozauri, ca fiind o datare serioasa, avand in vedere teoria relativitatii lui Einstein. Cine poate sa-mi spune de unde a scos-o pe-asta? Vreun link, ceva? Cum se dateaza cu gps-ul? Eu inca nu am auzit si ma intereseaza chestia. Thanks.

QUOTE (Martin Luther @ Nov 7 2010, 10:17 PM) *
E posibil poli sa fi avut un lapsus linguae, nu zic nu...dar de zis, a zis-o clar si raspicat la O&P intr-o emisiune despre evolutie cu cezar, altfel n-as fi scos-o io din burta. Asa ca daca tot ai acces la el mai usor decat mine, fa bine ptr mine si intreaba-l daca a fost vreo scapare sau chiar are vreo dovada in sensul asta...cu datarea prin gps!?? Thanks


Martin a ridicat acum ceva timp aceasta problema. Lasand la o parte faptul ca nu a dat referinta exacta si ca, asa cum obisnuieste, Martin nu mai raspunde cand i se pun intrebari care-l incomodeaza, hai sa vedem despre ce este vorba.

Azi am citit ceva care explica o parte din confuzie: nu se dateaza cu GPS-ul ci cu ajutorul GPTS-ului (Geomagnetic Polarity Time-Scale).

QUOTE
What is Palaeo-Magnetic dating?

The Earth’s magnetic field currently runs from north to south, which is known as a NORMAL field state. However, at various times throughout the Earth’s history, the field has reversed by 180 degrees in what is known as a REVERSED field state. The timing of such major field changes is recognised for the last 7 million years (Ma) based on studies of sea floor spreading zones, where these changes are recorded like a bar code, as well as the radiometric dating of volcanic rocks. This bar code of field change is known as the Geomagnetic Polarity Time-Scale (GPTS). The direction of the Earth’s field is preserved in cave sediments when water flushes these sediments into pools of water. When the sediment settles out of suspension in water the magnetic minerals orient themselves to the contemporary magnetic field. The sediments then become compacted and cemented, preserving the magnetic field direction. By measuring sediments in caves and comparing the polarity with the GPTS, the age of the sediments, and therefore the fossils within them, can be determined.

sursa: FAQ referitor la descoperirea Australopithecus sediba (sectiunea F). Sunt la topicul potrivit ca sa va spun ca vineri au fost publicate 5 articole despre Au. sediba in revista Science. Am recomandat deja mai multe materiale pe tema asta pe site-ul O2.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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skeptic
post Dec 5 2011, 07:42 AM
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Nu-mi amintesc sa fi vazut asa ceva in pozele de la lectia despre Creatiune.


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sisif
post Dec 5 2011, 11:10 PM
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cum nu vreti voi sa pricepeti ca pacatul a afectat intreaga creatiune. pe unii mai mult, pe altii mai putin.
asa cum ursuletii panda dau marturie despre minunatul creator, pestisorii aia dau marturie despre grozavia pacatului.


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sisif
post Dec 5 2011, 11:14 PM
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ah, am gresit-o p-asta cu ursuletii panda. smile.gif)


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sisif
post May 16 2012, 04:53 PM
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Jerry Coyne despre Ben Carson.
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/20...ory-university/


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Ianis
post May 17 2012, 08:27 AM
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Saracu' Ben Carson s-a cam facut de kko.
Aveam mai multe asteptari de la el, nu povesti cu ID si negarea fosilelor


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skeptic
post May 18 2012, 08:35 AM
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Ultima oara cand l-am vazut/citit, Ben Carson inca folosea Pariul lui Pascal ca argument in favoarea credintei.


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study_nature
post May 24 2012, 08:56 PM
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un fragment interesant din postarea de ieri a lui Ervin Taylor – professor emeritus of anthropology at the University of California, Riverside – cu privire la motivele pentru care partidul actualmente la putere in BAZS vrea sa modifice dogma nr 6 in asa fel incat sa fie mai ingusta:
QUOTE
I don’t think anyone would question that EGW believed in a recent creation “about six thousand years ago” and that this creation took place in six literal days. She reported several visions where she reported that she had gone back in time and personally witnessed events transpiring in in the early years of this world.

Against that, many scientifically-trained Adventists dispute the validity of that belief and their objections are now well known as they have been noted in various Adventist media including the Adventist Review. The importance of the issue is reflected in the approximately $1 million a year which is spent by the Adventist General Conference supporting the Geoscience Research Institute (GRI). The task of the GRI is essentially to seek scientific validation for EGW’s views about earth history, i.e., young life Creationism. Despite the tens of millions of dollars expended, the efforts of the GRI has been widely deemed to have been an abject failure in that after more than 40 years of effort, there has been an admission that no viable scientific evidence has been produced by the GRI to call into question the standard geological time scale. In the minds of traditionalists, that fact and the challenge of objections by church members in good and regular standing to a position clearly held by EGW creates a dire threat to the whole fabric of the SDA theological enterprise.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Jun 7 2013, 10:50 PM
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exercitiu de imaginatie: propuneti o interpretare creationista cu privire la variatiile dezvoltarii organelor genitale in lumea pasarilor


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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