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Abuzul in BAZS
icsicsics
post May 5 2010, 08:55 AM
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QUOTE (polihronu @ May 3 2010, 02:48 PM) *
Era doar o paralela ilustrativa, nu incercam sa spun ca se organizeaza competitii de specialitate pentru copiii predicatori. Sau poate nu stiu eu smile.gif


"festivalul copiilor predicatori..."


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"monstrul ratiunii naste somn".
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icsicsics
post May 5 2010, 09:31 AM
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QUOTE (polihronu @ May 3 2010, 10:09 PM) *
Mie mi s-a parut atit de banal (adica tipic obsesiei cu imaginea bisericii specifica liderului AZS)...


stai ca mi-am adus aminte de o chestie in genul situatiei despre care vorbim: http://www.catavencu.ro/ciorani_de_romania-13588.html#

doar personajele se schimba. si contextul istoric.


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"monstrul ratiunii naste somn".
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alm
post May 5 2010, 09:40 AM
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GOOD FOR YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! poli, fain de tot.

Dar ce pacat de abordarea celui de la diviziune. departe greva de iepure, o sa n-i se lungeasca urechile pana o sa vedem o intorsatura sanatoasa a lucrurilor.

aaa, si a fost delicioasa faza in care study_nature i-a luat exprimarea prelatului la puricat laugh1.gif


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Fiorin
post May 5 2010, 06:53 PM
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QUOTE (polihronu @ May 1 2010, 01:18 PM) *
Ma indoiesc ca parintii tai te-au pus sa dai recitaluri in public sau sa participi la competitii de specialitate.

Polihronule...
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polihronu
post May 5 2010, 06:57 PM
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Draga F, iti spun si tie: daca ai ceva sa-mi comunici personal, foloseste - rogu-te - PM-ul.


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eretik
post May 5 2010, 07:09 PM
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Fiorin, viteza cu care pot da ban/warn se zice ca ar fi mai mare decat cea a luminii
...si sunt foarte curios sa testez asta pe cineva.

Sa vezi atunci abuz.

LE: merge sistemul, testat "pe viu"


--------------------
"...But you won't listen to reason. It's like playing Chess with a pigeon; no matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it's victorious."
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myosotis
post May 12 2010, 06:07 PM
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Si povestea continua...

"Dear brother Badenas,

Thanks for your prompt response.

I am aware that the Euro-Africa Division has carefully prepared education programs with the intention of preventing the crime of child sexual abuse in the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Romanian Adventist Union has also something for the prevention and the reporting.

Interestingly, the pastors were told last year (for the first time) that in case of child sexual abuse they are mandated to report the case to the civil authorities, in order for these to take care of the abusers and stop the tragedies.

But, I am interested practically in:

How the Romanian Adventist Union is working with the abusers and their churches;

How the special committee of the Romanian Union is working for the victims of abuse and their churches.

Please, analyze how Romanian Adventist Church is treating the abusers and their victims. It is misleading for you just to hear what the leaders are informing you at this very moment, and, also, what the former leaders have informed the division leaders in the past. You’ll have breath-taking surprises!

Did you know the fact that A B (former President of the Union) knew about Pastor M P as abuser since 1996. The victims travelled especially from outside Romania to meet him, leave their report and he …dismissed them and ... did nothing? Do you know that when Pastor MP was exposed in 2009, he retired as pastor without any church discipline? His case is well known by the victims and their families, but very well hidden by the leaders. Is it the reason that he might be retiring one day and things will be forgotten, a reasonable one?

Did you know the fact that Pastor P D was known by his Romanian colleagues pastors regarding his history of sexual misconduct? Yet, the Union …recommended him as a pastor in good standing when he moved in the United States. He had a new victim while being pastor here, in the US, but eventually the victim died from cancer and didn’t have the chance to address her problem at the Conference level in the US. I have her audio-tape testimony from her family.

Would you like to talk with the victim’s family or with the members of the Romanian Church who knew the case and kept silence, because of keeping the church image?

This pastor is still preaching in New York until somebody will break the silence and expose him.

Do you know that the”Evangelist of the year” V F, exposed as pedophile in 2009 - (with not yet evaluated number of his victims over a period of 50 years) - and dis-fellowshiped after two of his victims had the courage to talk to pastor TH was …re-baptized in March 2010 by an Adventist pastor inexperienced to evaluate the gravity of this crime?

It is very well known that there is nothing in the education process for pastors regarding the phenomenon of child sexual abuse and its implications in the life of victims, their families, churches and society they are living in.

In the Romanian Seminary the students have no training to deal with victims of child sexual abuse and the pastors consider that forgiving and forgetting is the only part the victims must do.

With no training in area of post-traumatic stress syndrome how do you think the victims could be fairly treated in the church?

Do you know how many victims of child sexual abuse left the church after being “counseled” by pastors with such naïve an understanding?

Do you know that in this very moment I G pastor from Razboieni, Iasi Country, Moldova Conference, and pastors A A from the Leadership of Moldova Conference are ready to discipline a student, who was the victim of her teacher (a lesbian) because the student, now had the courage to speak and address her issue?

Do you know that SDA people are called to work for the healing of the nation and not for overstressing their own people?

Do you know that the police was waiting for the SDA church in Botosani county, Moldova Conference to report their SDA member they knew as abusing all of his daughters?

All of these are just from our SDA church.

Do you know that the local churches have authority to “treat” the abusers with no competence in this? And in the same time they have the authority to “discipline” the victims for their action of going to court against their abusers? With no education could the local church be the decision factor for cases of child sexual abuse? When the legislation is no yet available, there is corruption on the police and other higher civil level do the church have a mission in this respect?

Do you know that in the special anti-abuse committee of the Union there are no professionals, majority men, and women representation is quite insignificant?

Probably, you would be interested in knowing these quite sensitive aspects.

It will be very important for you in this moment to contact Mrs. Audry Johnson, the Director of Family Ministry from Southern-eastern California Conference, USA. She is an expert in the field and works closely with Drs. Flowers form the General Conference. I talked with her many times and asked her opinion in so delicate matters like abusers and victims approach in the Seventh Day Adventist Church.

Probably, you have an explanation why I am very concern of the Romanian SDA leadership and I am willing to work with SNAP. These people are helping victims from all religious backgrounds because they understand first hand that issue from their own experience and listen to their Creator’s call. The victims are more important than the abusers.

If somebody from your loved ones would be sexually abused, what would you do?

Sincerely,

Dr. MargiAnne Isaia"


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"Myosotis... is the most beautiful for being small and unpretending; even flowers must be modest." Henry David Thoreau
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myosotis
post May 12 2010, 06:09 PM
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Si iaca si raspunsul:

"Dear Dr. Isaia,

Today we have received the DVD sent by you. I am very thankful to you for all this useful information concerning abuse in the Romanian Union.
As you well know, references to concrete cases, and not just to general concepts, is what we need to act with some possibilities of success. Without the necessary data for any formal accusations: dates, places, names of the persons accused and their victims, and of eventual witnesses you know that no legal action, both within and without the church, any legal or disciplinary action is quite difficult, and some times impossible. And this is the same for the healing of the abused and their families, which is also our great concern. If you are ready to work with us in this sense, we will be very thankful.

I fully share your concern about the preparation of our pastor to face the issue of abuse. The good news is that we have already from this year an excellent manual created to this purpose: "Binding up bruised Reeds; A Quick Reference Guide for Pastor on Ministry to Families Experiencing Abuse and Family Violence", edited by Karen M. Flowers and Barbara Couden Hernandez and promoted by the Family Ministries Department. We are doing the most to make it translated into all the languages of our division, and included in the program of permnent education of all our pastors without delay.

Thank you again for yout precious help in this issue that breaks our hearts. We keep in touch.

God bless you abondantly in your ministry to the broken.

Yours at His service

Roberto Badenas
Education, Family Ministries and Chaplaincy Director"


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"Myosotis... is the most beautiful for being small and unpretending; even flowers must be modest." Henry David Thoreau
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eretik
post May 12 2010, 06:23 PM
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Asa mai merge.


--------------------
"...But you won't listen to reason. It's like playing Chess with a pigeon; no matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it's victorious."
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polihronu
post May 12 2010, 06:26 PM
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Pentru fairness, trebuie sa citez si eu raspunsul lui Roberto de azi la misiva mea de acum aproape zece zile.

QUOTE
Dear Bogdan Gheorghita,

Thank you for your information.
We take note.

Best regards,

Evident, nu m-am putut abtine biggrin.gif

QUOTE
Thank you for confirming the receipt of my email. Even this formal note of yours is a reaction beyond my expectations (I've grown used to people in power simply ignoring voices of dissent).

Best of luck,


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"Omul care spune adevarul din cinism este un mincinos" - Bonhoeffer
"Onestitatea intelectuala este o conditie necesara a fericirii" - Paine
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study_nature
post May 12 2010, 06:51 PM
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Sunt coplesitoare scrisorile acestea si implicatiile lor! sad.gif

Ma concentrez pentru inceput asupra unui detaliu mic dar important: myo, in citatul de mai jos este vorba de cazul despre care ne-ai atras tu atentia la inaugurarea acestui topic, asa-i?

QUOTE (myosotis @ May 12 2010, 09:07 PM) *
Do you know that in this very moment I G pastor from Razboieni, Iasi Country, Moldova Conference, and pastors A A from the Leadership of Moldova Conference are ready to discipline a student, who was the victim of her teacher (a lesbian) because the student, now had the courage to speak and address her issue?


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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myosotis
post May 12 2010, 06:55 PM
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Dap, si se pare ca, in mod trist, fata are sustinerea profesorilor, a preotului ortodox din localitate, a primarului, dar nu a bisericii in care e membra.

Pe pastorul AA il stiu de cand eram copii. Ma gandesc sa-l caut sa-l intreb de vorba zilele astea.


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"Myosotis... is the most beautiful for being small and unpretending; even flowers must be modest." Henry David Thoreau
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kla
post May 12 2010, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (myosotis @ May 12 2010, 09:55 PM) *
Dap, si se pare ca, in mod trist, fata are sustinerea profesorilor, a preotului ortodox din localitate, a primarului, dar nu a bisericii in care e membra.

Pe pastorul AA il stiu de cand eram copii. Ma gandesc sa-l caut sa-l intreb de vorba zilele astea.

Pai poate in USA unde a studiat AA s-au facut si cursuri in specialitatea discutata aici si, practic, s-a actionat ca la carte. wink.gif Mai ales ca omul e de prin zona si cunoaste cel putin bine situatiunea.
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kla
post May 12 2010, 07:13 PM
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Intotdeauna m-am intrebat ce s-ar intampla daca aceasta religie autodeclarata "elitista" (apropo si de ceea ce spunea si Spartan aici) nu ar mai fi minoritara ci ar deveni majoritara. Monstrii ratiunii nasc somn sau viceversa. Insa nu trebuie trecut cu vederea si scandalul (iarasi cu abuzuri sexuale) din Insula Pitcairn. O fi simpla coincidenta apartenenta religioasa a majoritatii? Sau genele razvratitilor de pe Bounty isi spun cuvantul?
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myosotis
post May 12 2010, 07:26 PM
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kla, da, trist e ca m-as fi asteptat ca in USA sa fi invatat o alta atitudine fata de abuz. Dar... nu e singur acolo. Si Moldova e o zona in care chiar si intelectualii - pe bune - sunt inchisi fata de tratarea problemei abuzului. Primeaza oricand mult-pomenita si bine-cunoscuta "imagine".

Da, intrebarea ta referitoare la Picairn este buna. Totusi, nu stiu daca putem gasi un raspuns. Punem de-un studiu? biggrin.gif


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kla
post May 12 2010, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE (myosotis @ May 12 2010, 10:26 PM) *
[...]
Da, intrebarea ta referitoare la Picairn este buna. Totusi, nu stiu daca putem gasi un raspuns. Punem de-un studiu? biggrin.gif


Ma pricep un pic la studiile care presupun cercetare in teren. Cum e destul de costisitoare transbordarea pana acolo propun sa intervievam pe cineva care a fost. Stau si mai gandesc ca din Filipine e mai aproape. LC o fi ajuns (nu stiu de ce parca la un moment dat mi-a trecut pe langa ureche o astfel de poveste)? Poate ii cerem o opinie!
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study_nature
post May 12 2010, 08:17 PM
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Si eu m-am gandit candva sa adresez in eter intrebarea retorica - cum de cartea lui Dumitru Popa despre Pitcairn publicata la editura Viata si Sanatate n-a primit macar o erata discreta in care sa se mentioneze cum s-a naruit visul adventist in acel loc pur si neatins de pacat?
In aceasta situatie "ma achit" eu de datoria de a semnala ca exista si alte carti despre locuitorii de pe Insula Pitcairn, cum ar fi Lost Paradise sau Trouble in Paradise scrise de jurnalista Kathy Marks.
Va recomand si acest video in care ea arata cum autoritatile britanice (in primele 3 minute) si lucratorii AZS (in restul video-ului in lungime de 5:22) au stat cu mainile in san sau au avut tot felul de reactii oribile.



Intreaga prezentare de o ora este aici.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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myosotis
post May 12 2010, 08:21 PM
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O opinie de-a lui LC? Ok, dar sa-ti pregatesti batista. Vei auzi orice numai un raspuns pertinent la intrebarea ta nu. Poate vei auzi istorioare dragute menite sa stoarca lacrimi. Din conversatiile mele cu LC, dupa 15 minute ma vedeam nevoita sa repet intrebarea la care el nu voia sa raspunda. Mai bine zis, intrebarile. Prin urmare, sigur, intrebarea moarte n-are. Doar speranta prea mare sa nu fie... mai bine surprins placut decat deziluzionat. Asta e deviza mea! smile.gif

PS: study, merci de link. Arunc un ochi acusi.


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"Myosotis... is the most beautiful for being small and unpretending; even flowers must be modest." Henry David Thoreau
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kla
post May 12 2010, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE (study_nature @ May 12 2010, 11:17 PM) *
Si eu m-am gandit candva sa adresez in eter intrebarea retorica - cum de cartea lui Dumitru Popa despre Pitcairn publicata la editura Viata si Sanatate n-a primit macar o erata discreta in care sa se mentioneze cum s-a naruit visul adventist in acel loc pur si neatins de pacat?
[...]

Exista pe undeva in format electronic acea carte? Chiar si fara erata wink.gif!

LE La mine clipurile video de la fora.tv nu merg.
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polihronu
post May 12 2010, 08:41 PM
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QUOTE (kla @ May 12 2010, 11:32 PM) *
LE La mine clipurile video de la fora.tv nu merg.

Poate trebuie sa instalezi un plugin care sa le playeze.


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"Omul care spune adevarul din cinism este un mincinos" - Bonhoeffer
"Onestitatea intelectuala este o conditie necesara a fericirii" - Paine
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