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Libertatea in institutiile adventiste de invatamant superior, Pornind de la un studiu de caz: predarea evolutiei la Univ La Sierra
study_nature
post Oct 11 2010, 05:30 PM
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Superb! Eu m-am atasat de La Sierra University de cand am creat acest topic si am inceput sa urmaresc controversa.
Cresterea numarului lor de boboci cu peste un sfert (26,4%) si cu 12,9% a numarului total de studenti este o veste buna. Mi-ar placea sa cred ca liceenii seniori si parintii lor apreciaza universitatile adventiste care permit o autonomie a cadrelor didactice. Si probabil ca celor mai multi studenti de la LSU nu le pasa de oprobriul unei importante parti a opiniei adventiste pana acolo incat sa se transfere la o universitate adventista mai conservatoare.


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"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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sisif
post Oct 12 2010, 02:47 AM
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QUOTE (skeptic @ Oct 11 2010, 11:24 AM) *
Oare cum am putea interpreta asta?


larga este poarta, lata este calea care duce la pierzare, si multi sunt cei ce intra pe ea.
cum altfel? diablo.gif


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study_nature
post Oct 31 2010, 02:14 PM
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O foarte interesanta scrisoare deschisa catre LSU din partea unui adventist cu studii juridice.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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polihronu
post Oct 31 2010, 11:04 PM
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Eu nu pot sa fiu la fel de incintat de documentul emanat de la hranitoarea mea mama. Insir aici alandala citeva motive:

1. Pagina 2: "Modern understandings of the Hebrew worldview often misrepresent the ancient Hebrew cosmology. Richard Davidson and Randall Younker indicate that the Hebrews did not consider the heavens to be an upside-down metal bowl resting on a flat Earth, but, rather, that such a notion is an invention of the nineteenth century.6" Nota 6 precizeaza: "6 Richard Davidson and Randall Younker, “Myth of the Vaulted Dome,” forthcoming essay to be published by the Faith and Science Council of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists."

Pe pagina de titlu a documentului se face urmatoarea mentiune: "Voted by the Seminary Faculty on April 30, 2010". Acum, ce sa inteleg? Ca toti colegii lui Younker si Davidson au citit respectivul eseu nepublicat (nu pare sa fi aparut nici la ora asta)? Sau ca au ridicat si ei mina in deplina necunostinta de cauza? Ce sa mai vorbim despre absenta unei dezbateri de specialitate pe marginea "demonstratiei" celor doi, care e data ca fapt inca inainte de publicare? Sau despre faptul ca "the Hebrews" e cumplit de imprecis - poate ca evreii in general nu credeau in "the vaulted dome", dar asta nu ne spune nimic despre opiniile autorului anonim al Genezei 1 sau despre semantica lui raqia.

2. Pagina 6: "We believe that there are other methods outside scientific methodologies for discerning truth." Cum ar fi? Inseamna ca am studiat degeaba exegeza, limbi biblice, istorie si arheologie. Dragii mei profesori nu sint constienti ca daca spun "metoda" spun "stiintific". Filozofia antica (macar odata cu "inceputurile" ei grecesti) a fost stiinta, tocmai pentru ca a presupus metoda (si chiar daca metodologia a evoluat semnificativ).

3. Pagina 7: "We believe that the Scriptures must always be given first preference, because we hold that they are the perfect standard of truth." Huh, CARE adevar? Stiintific? Pai, atunci ar trebui sa credem ca serpii maninca pamint. Parca teologia adventista nu credea ca Biblia este infailibila in chestiuni stiintifice. A, stiu: sabatul. Mama ei de dogmatica! Pentru ca sa "aparam sabatul", ne sacrificam creierele.

4. Paginile 7 & 8: "conventional science". Exista si "stiinta neconventionala"?

5. Pagina 9: "Our belief that major portions of the fossil-filled geologic column were deposited during the global Flood shows that the geologic column does not argue against a recent six-day Creation." O perla de non sequitur.


Ma exaspereaza lipsa de coerenta logica patenta in argumentatia acestui text. Ce este moartea? Un proces biologic, nu? Teologia adventista, cel putin, sustine ca omul nu este nemuritor in sine - deci ca am fost dotati de la bun (ba chiar "foarte bun") inceput cu mecanismele fiziologice ale mortii. Si ca omul nu va fi niciodata nemuritor in sine (frunzele pomului vietii, dieta obligatorie). Cum pisici putem face caz de "problemele" de teodicee implicate de evolutie?

Si m-a amuzat asumarea semeata din final a ecologismului. Sa fim totusi seriosi. Asa cum n-am nevoie de Biblie sa-mi spuna ca nu e frumos sa dai in cap la oameni, n-am nevoie de creationism sa-mi placa ursii polari. Si de ce sint ursii polari buni, iar soarecii si tintarii trebuie exterminati? Atita vreme cit nu sint specii pe cale de disparitie, putem ucide in voie? Hai ma!


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study_nature
post Nov 1 2010, 08:39 PM
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Sunt de acord critica ta, Poli.
Desi am deschis statementul celor de la Andrews, nici nu m-am sinchisit sa-l citesc.
Mie mi s-a parut interesant ca cineva poate sa laude acel document, la fel si pe Wilson si totusi sa accepte evolutionismul promovat de stiinta mainstream. Asta daca am inteles bine. Dar nu mai sunt angajat in asemenea polemici, simt ca nu mai este asta batalia mea.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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polihronu
post Nov 1 2010, 09:22 PM
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QUOTE (study_nature @ Nov 1 2010, 10:39 PM) *
...simt ca nu mai este asta batalia mea.

Same here. E unul dintre motivele pentru care am renuntat probabil definitiv la ideea blogului in engleza, cel putin in varianta pe care o gindeam acum un an si pe care o stii. E interesant sa burdusesti buncarul cu dinamita, dar e si mai interesant sa te bucuri de orizontul larg din afara lui.


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"Omul care spune adevarul din cinism este un mincinos" - Bonhoeffer
"Onestitatea intelectuala este o conditie necesara a fericirii" - Paine
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study_nature
post Dec 28 2010, 01:40 PM
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Mi-a placut metafora buncarului creionata de tine, Poli. smile.gif

Este bine ca noi suntem relativ liberi. Pentru cei care nu au prea mult de ales, si sunt in mijlocul luptei dintre aripile conservatoare si liberala ale adventismului, situatia este mai grea. Una dintre ideile pentru convietuire in universitatile adventiste ar putea fi si cea prezentata de Ervin Taylor in A Modest Proposal: Introduction to Adventism.

Iata un fragment semnificativ:

QUOTE
There are currently exchanges of opinions in various quarters about how Adventist institutions of higher education should present topics that are considered controversial by conservative and fundamentalist members of the Adventist faith community such as evolutionary biology, geology, and paleontology and various approaches to Adventist and Christian theology. There is often expressed the position that there only one true Adventism and that this one brand of Adventism should control how all controversial topics are taught no matter what the academic field might be.

A modest proposal: How about developing or adapting two lower division related courses entitled something like "Introduction to Adventism I and II. [Intro to Adventism I and Intro to Adventism II]."

Intro to Adventism I would be dedicated to explaining, in a totally positive and supportive manner, the conventional, standard, traditional Adventist understanding of theology, geology, Ellen White, biology, history, etc. etc. Whoever teaches this course should be widely known as a believer in the validity of all traditional Adventist beliefs. Someone with the views of the late Dr. Gerhard Hasel would be an ideal choice for teaching this course. Clifford Goldstein would be another excellent choice. (His M.A. is from Johns Hopkins). (...)

The Introduction to Adventism II course would review in a scholarly manner the entire range of Adventisms-from the most liberal to the most conservative versions in all of their varied and variant expressions. There would be a comparison and contrasting analysis of the theology, sociology, and history of variant Adventisms in terms of all appropriate models of religious theological and institutional development. Such a course could be taught by a theologian perhaps with guest lectures by sociologists, anthropologists, and historians.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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kla
post Dec 28 2010, 02:21 PM
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Bine spune nenea asta. Insa credeti ca avand in vedere subordonarea bicefala (stat/ biserica) a entitatilor de invatamant superior (cel putin vorbesc de cazul Romaniei) va accepta vreodata partea bisericeasca asa ceva?
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study_nature
post Jan 8 2011, 08:29 PM
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Nu stiu cum de mi-a scapat acest articol din 2009 de pe Panda's Thumb despre cazul La Sierra University. S-au strans aproape 900 de comentarii.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Jan 9 2011, 11:47 AM
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Finalul articolului anterior este neasteptat. Pornind de la acest citat dintr-un articol al lui Shane Hilde, justitiarul care a pus la punct site-ul EducateTruth,

QUOTE
One has to wonder why LSU refuses to be transparent. As the veil is being pulled back, some parents are realizing LSU is not the place for their children. One such parent, Karen McPherson, said: “My daughter went to La Sierra. When I discovered they were teaching naturalistic evolution – I transferred her to Pacific Union College. The transfer was for this reason alone!”


... Nick Matzke, autorul articolului de pe Panda's Thumb, isi prezinta experienta:

QUOTE
This passage is…interesting. Apparently McPherson thinks that PUC (an Adventist school in the hills of the wine country just 1 hour north of San Francisco) is a resolutely YEC school. I thought so also, until I visited it in 2006. Here’s the story.

In 2006, Wes Elsberry and I were invited to come to PUC and debate evolution for part of a student-organized speaker series. We were initially hesitant, since we are generally skeptical of debating creationists. However, after some discussion with the organizers, we grudgingly signed up, since it seemed like there was some chance for a reasonable discussion rather than just a Gish-gallop debate. Wes and I drove up to PUC – but, aware of the YECiness of Adventists, we went in as armed to the teeth as academics can be, with huge powerpoint files solely devoted to putting evidence for the age of the earth and common ancestry as bluntly and non-deniably as possible. When I spoke, I popped the slides up one-by-one and used the basic refrain, “Here are the hard facts. If this evidence has been hidden from you before now by your teachers and professors, you should ask yourself why.” It was pretty much a go-in-with-blazing-guns strategy.

However, as the discussion ensued, the students, and some of the professors, had some news for me. “You’ve got us all wrong,” they said. “We’re not all old-fashioned young-earth creationists and anti-evolutionists here, that’s an old stereotype about Adventists.” (Note: this is not a direct quote, rather it is just the gist of what I remember hearing.) Subsequent discussion indicated that many of the students & profs were reasonably well-informed about evolution and not really skeptical of it. After some interesting chats, Wes and I drove home, shaking our heads and commenting that if Seventh Day Adventists were becoming OK with evolution, we should keep our eyes open for flying pigs and freezing hells.

So, anyway, the point is: watch out Hilde & McPherson! It looks like Pacific Union College isn’t safe, either! Light the torches and sharpen the pitchforks!


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Mar 19 2011, 02:19 PM
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noutati:
LSU RELEASES OPEN LETTER AND REPORT ON THE TEACHING OF CREATION

comentariu asupra noutatilor:
ADVENTIST EDUCATION—AT THE CROSSROADS?


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Jun 14 2011, 10:49 PM
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discutiile inregistrate de un reportofon lasat pornit in timpul unui meci Lakers-Nuggets se lasa cu 4 demisii la varf in cadrul Universitatii La Sierra.

LE: tot recent a aparut o chestiune ceva mai mica, dar deloc lipsita de importanta


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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kla
post Jun 15 2011, 07:50 AM
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Prima data chiar credeam ca i-au dat afara pentru ca s-au uitat la meci! wink.gif
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study_nature
post Jun 15 2011, 02:06 PM
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am vrut sa compun un titlu mai senzationalist ca sa atrag atentia si asta mi-a iesit. tongue.gif

follow-up: declaratia de presa facuta ieri de LSU si scrisoarea lui Gary Bradley expediata duminica colegilor si prietenilor.

Update: Adventist Today este in posesia unei copii a inregistrarii, dar deocamdata o analizeaza.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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sisif
post Jun 15 2011, 11:20 PM
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ii dau dreptate lui PZ Myers: I think they're all better off getting out of that crazy place. The absurdity of being pressured to teach lies in the classroom ought to have been reason enough to leave, but that they have employers who want to control what they do after hours in their own homes ought to convince anyone that it's time to leave.


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study_nature
post Jun 16 2011, 11:36 AM
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Amen!
Preach it, fratello Myers!

El zicea bine si pe vremea cand controversa de la LSU era mai proaspata:

QUOTE
Oh, and by the way, you cannot get tenure at La Sierra unless you are a member of the Seventh Day Adventist church. The mind boggles. I know this kind of restriction is fairly common at fundie colleges, but it is such an imposition of ideology on the faculty — it turns academic freedom into a joke.

One thing I cannot understand is how Gary Bradley can stomach investing so much of his career in such a place…but he says he is a practicing Adventist.



--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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kla
post Jun 17 2011, 09:20 PM
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Legat de incidentul LSU am scris si eu un mic text.
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study_nature
post Jun 20 2011, 08:58 PM
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Cel mai longeviv presedinte al celei mai mari institutii adventiste de invatamant superior se retrage dupa jumatate de an de la inceputul celui de-al cincilea mandat. Cititi si al doilea comentariu.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Jun 26 2011, 12:44 PM
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Pornind de la cazul demisiilor de la LSU, cateva observatii pertinente din perspectiva juridica.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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kla
post Jul 19 2011, 07:09 PM
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N-are de-a face cu libertatea insa are de-a face cu existenta. AUC. Atlantic Union College cam fuse....
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