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Libertatea in institutiile adventiste de invatamant superior, Pornind de la un studiu de caz: predarea evolutiei la Univ La Sierra
study_nature
post Jan 29 2010, 10:06 PM
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Deschid acest subiect apropiat de inima mea acum deoarece azi a aparut rezolutia aprobata de senatul Universitatii La Sierra pentru pastrarea libertatii academice, in contextul atacurilor publice cu acuzatia ca departamentul de biologie al acelei institutii preda evolutionismului (asta pe scurt). Acesta este un subiect controversat, la noi nu stiu cat se stie despre el, dar cred ca este important sa discutam.

Rezolutia de mai sus este semnificativa prin faptul ca membrii senatului isi afirma "our commitment to the preservation of academic freedom with intellectual and moral integrity in the context of our heritage, and service as a Seventh-day Adventist Christian University."

Pentru a intelege mai bine cronologia problemei si contextul mai larg, puteti consulta urmatoarele 2 articole de pe site-ul Spectrum Magazine:

Unraveling a Witch Hunt: La Sierra under Siege
Educate Truth and Consequences: The Assault on La Sierra University Continues


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"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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polihronu
post Jan 29 2010, 10:11 PM
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Well, ai deschis o discutie extrem de importanta. Se intimpla sa il cunosc destul de bine pe David Assherick si, in general, l-am apreciat. Dar reactia lui din toamna trecuta m-a enervat la culme. A fost principalul motiv pentru care m-am apucat sa scriu un blog si in limba engleza (inca nu l-am facut public). Nu pot decit sa laud gestul senatului LSU. E un test major si poate decisiv pentru maturitatea adventismului.


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"Onestitatea intelectuala este o conditie necesara a fericirii" - Paine
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skeptic
post Jan 29 2010, 10:16 PM
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Ah, ce subiect sensibil! L-am urmarit si eu o vreme. Daca nu ma insel, a dat si presedintele un comunicat plin de subintelesuri.


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apiaster
post Jan 29 2010, 11:24 PM
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Urmarind evolutia acestui subiect in biserica AZS, am gasit motive sa ma intreb care mai este acum legitimitatea vastului proiect educational pe care il promoveaza biserica de la bun inceput. Resurse majore sunt atrase si folosite in urmarirea unui ideal de educatie care pare tot mai mult afundat in ideologie decat indreptat spre vreun obiectiv viu, dinamic. Este imbucuratoare aceasta dezvoltare recenta, insa mie nu mi se pare suficienta pentru a legitimiza educatia AZS.
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study_nature
post Jan 30 2010, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE (skeptic @ Jan 30 2010, 12:16 AM) *
Ah, ce subiect sensibil! L-am urmarit si eu o vreme. Daca nu ma insel, a dat si presedintele un comunicat plin de subintelesuri.


Intr-adevar, a dat si Jan Paulsen un comunicat legat de subiectul acesta pe data de 19 iunie 2009. In acel comunicat face trimitere la o declaratie votata in 2004 la Consiliul Anual de catre Comitetul Executiv al Conferintei Generale, prin care se face la apel la pastrarea aceleiasi pozitii anacronice in privinta creationismului, pe baza interpretarii literaliste a primelor 11 capitole din Geneza.

Cat despre rezolutia aprobata ieri de Senatul Universitatii La Sierra, valoarea ei consta si in faptul ca propune o viziune diferita de cea dezamagitoare adoptata pe 12 noiembrie 2009 de catre Consiliul de administratie ('Board of Trustees') al Universitatii La Sierra (pe scurt CAULS). Cu o zi inainte, acelasi consiliu votase o declaratie de sustinere a vederilor adventiste despre creatie.
Despre aceste hotarari puteti citi mai multe aici, pe site-ul oficial al Universitatii La Sierra.

De ce mi se pare dezamagitoare rezolutia la care faceam trimitere mai sus? Pai, CAULS crede ca "ar fi potrivit si avantajos pentru educatia superioara adventista sa se dezvolte un curriculum care sa includa in mod specific 'o afirmare ... riguroasa stiintific a convingerilor noastre istorice intr-o creatiune in sase zile care este literala si recenta' " (citat din punctul 4 al declaratiei votate in 2004, vezi primul meu paragraf). Problema este ca nu exista o afirmare riguroasa din punct de vedere stiintific a convingerilor noastre istorice cu privire la creatiune. Si asta pentru ca sunt putini specialisti si foarte putine dovezi. Institutele care promoveaza creationismul sau design-ul inteligent (cum ar fi Geoscience Research Institute-ul AZS, Institute for Creation Research fondat de Henry Morris, Center for Science and Culture din cadrul Discovery Institute, centru condus de Stephen C Meyer) sunt, inainte de toate, vasale unor ideologii bine conturate iar rezultatele cercetarilor depuse de aceste institutii nu mi se par convingatoare.
Voua cum vi se par?


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"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Mar 7 2010, 08:58 AM
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Nu stiu cum de mi-a scapat postarea aceasta incredibil de utila pentru a intelege conflictele dintre 'conservatori' si 'liberali' din sanul BAZS. Desi se refera la Diviziunea America de Nord si porneste de la subiectul libertatii academice propune un model simplificat care este destul de apropiat de realitate, in opinia mea. De asemenea, dihotomia pe care o propune autorul are legatura si cu discutiile de pe forumul nostru cu privire la importanta informatiei si la dezideratul convingerilor bine inradacinate.

Cateva citate demne de mentionat din materialul spre care v-am trimis:

QUOTE
I propose a simple dichotomy to model the opposing sides in this battle: one side is primarily belief driven; the other side is primarily data driven. My use of the term "data" is not limited to scientific data and my use of "beliefs" is not limited to religious beliefs. As used here, "primarily" does not mean "entirely." Furthermore this is an observation, not a value judgment.


QUOTE
Beliefs are very powerful, especially when acted upon. For thousands of years, people have used their beliefs as justification for killing each other. The good news is that the Adventist church can not use this approach. The bad news is that it has in the past resorted instead to destroying careers. {surprise.gif}


QUOTE
It is inherent in any battle between BDP and DDP that it will be the former who want to solve what they see as the problem by exercising control over both people and data; whereas the latter know that since controlling either is impossible, it would be better to understand the data, gather more data, i.e., do more research, and then work diligently at understanding the implications of the data so that thought leaders, some of whom are theologians, can help us learn how to live with those implications.


QUOTE
Data driven people are hardly likely to start big new organizations. Both history and logic make this clear. Throughout recorded history there have been (and today there still are) literally thousands of belief driven groups forming then quarreling with each other over differences in their chosen beliefs. How many different ways can you form data driven groups, which by definition are driven by data that can not be controlled?


QUOTE
There are three steps people follow when leaving the church: they leave first with their mind, then their money, then their feet. There are a great many people who have completed the first step, and a great many who are poised on the brink of the third step. This does not bode well.


PS: La aplicarea metodei compromiterii carierei indezirabililor nu am fost si noi adesea martori pe plaiurile noastre mioritice? Asta intamplandu-se simultan cu relativa stabilitate a carierelor celor care se supun, indiferent de performantele lor in lucrurile cu adevarat importante.

LE: Pentru echilibru va invit sa cititi si comentariile care critica intreaga abordare de mai sus sau anumite aspecte ale ei; unul dintre cele mai pertinente ar fi cel apartinandu-i lui David C Read.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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believer
post Apr 15 2010, 03:34 PM
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Cred că și articolul acesta își are rostul în discuție. Citez încheierea:
QUOTE
The next major administrative event for the school is a May 12 constituency meeting. According to a 2008 "Campus News Feature" from La Sierra, "The constituents elect board trustees, approve changes to university bylaws and conduct other business matters involving the university. Constituents meet every two years to vote on bylaws, trustee nominations and other matters."
At the Review's deadline at the end of March, Becker said he had not seen an agenda, which is expected to be sent to constituency members "some time in April."


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„Nu sunt de acord cu ceea ce spui, dar aș apăra până la moarte dreptul tău de a o spune”
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study_nature
post Apr 15 2010, 03:53 PM
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Billy,

E foarte bine ca ai intervenit la acest topic, nu-mi placea sa cant si sa joc singur.

Intr-adevar, articolul pe care ni l-ai adus inainte a aparut pe 31 martie pe site-ul Adventist Review, autor fiind Mark Kellner, News Editor. Daca mergeti pana la capatul articolului spre care v-am trimis si care din cate vad are acelasi continut ca acela indicat de Believer, veti vedea si cateva paragrafe in care Bill Knott, Editor al Adventist Review, s-a simtit indemnat sa clarifice anumite aspecte, tocmai din cauza ca subiectul tratat este unul aprins.

Dar ca sa intelegeti mai bine anumite nuante importante, ar fi esential sa cititi replica Universitatii La Sierra la articolul lui Kellner, adus in discutie de Believer.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post May 13 2010, 08:00 PM
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Pentru cei care vor parcurge acest topic candva, in viitor - consultati si postarile de la thread-ul despre Geneza, incepand cu aceasta, dar sa n-o ratati nici pe aceasta.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post May 21 2010, 08:42 PM
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Se pare ca libertatea academica are sanse slabe in fata celor pentru care educatia AZS si dorintele parintilor sunt mai importante:

QUOTE
"Our students are important; their parents make great sacrifices to send them to a Seventh-day Adventist school to get a Seventh-day Adventist education.”
[Ricardo Graham, LSU board of trustees chair and president of the church’s Pacific Union Conference]


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post May 27 2010, 12:01 PM
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Se pare ca cei din Conferinta Michigan sunt nostalgici la amintirea vremurilor cand Battle Creek-ul de pe teritoriul lor era buricul poporului adventist, asa ca vor sa dea tonul pentru cei care isi doresc sa fie strajeri adevarati si dregatori de sparturi, dandu-ne noua, celorlalti, un exemplu despre ce inseamna sa fii mai catolic decat Papa:

QUOTE
1. Effective June 1, 2010 the Michigan Conference has removed La Sierra University from its list of Adventist Colleges and Universities which qualify for employee subsidy. This means that no employee may expect tuition support if they have a dependent attending La Sierra.
2. With sorrow we feel it is our spiritual responsibility to notify Michigan Conference members that we do not believe that La Sierra can currently be trusted to be supportive of Seventh-day Adventist spiritual values especially in reference to faith in the biblical understanding of creation, and thus the authority of Scripture in the life and practice of the believer.
3. Resolved: To encourage each Seventh-day Adventist college and university to continue to strengthen the principles of biblical authority and faith. In support of these principles we urge continued development of educational strategies and faculties which would move these institutions to becoming centers of excellence in promoting, cultivating and defending creation science. We define creation science in the context of the recent creation week of seven ordinary, literal, historical, consecutive, contiguous twenty-four hour days of divine creation and rest as described in Genesis.
4. Furthermore: We request that the 2010 General Conference session vote a resolution affirming number 3 above, with the direction of bringing to the following GC session a statement that would serve to strengthen our fundamental belief number six. Hence, our Creation doctrine would clearly articulate our biblical view of “a literal, recent, six-day Creation,” in which “the seven days of the Creation account were literal 24-hour days forming a week identical in time to what we now experience as a week,” as the statement affirmed by the General Conference Executive Committee in October 2004 noted.
{formatarea cu bold a textului este realizata de mine}

Sursa: un angajat al Conferintei Michigan care, analog lui TriX al nostru, a binevoit sa impartaseasca noutatile de interior cu cei de la Spectrum si implicit cu cei care se mai intereseaza de directia in care se indreapta BAZS.


In cazul in care cineva s-ar intreba ce motive ar fi suficiente pentru sustinerea unor asemenea decizii:

QUOTE
Please know that the following actions from the Michigan Conference Executive Committee (MCEC) come from hearts that have great affection for Adventist education. They continue, with the support of this wonderful constituency, to sustain Adventist education in Michigan and beyond with millions of dollars. Having said that, neither the MCEC nor its churches are willing to see our youth sacrificed on the altars of evolution and skepticism without doing what we can to prevent it. We believe in Adventist Christian Higher Education as long as it is based on the principles of Scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy. It is our prayer and hope that the situation at La Sierra University will be corrected. We would rejoice to be able to reverse some of the actions we took. Nevertheless, since Adventist youth in Michigan attend a wide variety of Adventist colleges and universities, we have a responsibility to speak clearly to our brothers and sisters in the Michigan Conference. We do this so they may be able to intelligently make decisions concerning the education, spiritual training and faith of their youth. For this we offer no apology.
{formatarea cu bold a textului este realizata de mine}


Cititi si restul pe site-ul Spectrum.

PS: Oare cand cineva face o afirmatie de genul "We define creation science in the context of the recent creation week of seven ordinary, literal, historical, consecutive, contiguous twenty-four hour days of divine creation and rest as described in Genesis", nu cumva simte furnicaturi pe sirea spinarii si fiorul unui pseudo-climax? smile.gif


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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polihronu
post May 27 2010, 01:54 PM
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Oh, the stupidity! Educatie, dar numai daca ne respecta prejudecatile (in cel mai etimologic sens al cuvintului). La cu totul alta scara, s-ar putea sa va placa si asta.


--------------------
"Omul care spune adevarul din cinism este un mincinos" - Bonhoeffer
"Onestitatea intelectuala este o conditie necesara a fericirii" - Paine
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study_nature
post May 28 2010, 07:35 AM
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Iata o interpretare a deciziei luate de comitetul executiv al Conferintei Michigan de a nu-i mai sustine financiar pe copiii angajatilor care studiaza la Universitatea La Sierra:

QUOTE
This action has tremendous ecclesiological implications that are barely hinted at in these reports. This action is a rebuke not only of the university, but of its board and “constituency” (e.g., the Pacific Union Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist Church), which Michigan says “have collectively been unwilling to rectify this vital spiritual issue.”
(...)
So we have the leadership of one part of the Seventh-day Adventist church telling an institution of another part of that same church that it is in apostasy. And it is telling the leaders of that other conference that they are failing in their duty and are supporting apostasy. I cannot recall a time that this has happened in the church’s history.

Sursa: Advent Hope, blogul lui Bill Cork, pastor al "North Houston and Spring Creek Seventh-day Adventist churches in Texas, and a chaplain in the Texas Army National Guard".


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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kla
post May 28 2010, 08:31 AM
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QUOTE (study_nature @ May 28 2010, 10:35 AM) *
Iata o interpretare a deciziei luate de comitetul executiv al Conferintei Michigan de a nu-i mai sustine financiar pe copiii angajatilor care studiaza la Universitatea La Sierra:


Sursa: Advent Hope, blogul lui Bill Cork, pastor al "North Houston and Spring Creek Seventh-day Adventist churches in Texas, and a chaplain in the Texas Army National Guard".


Ma asteptam ca cei mai de la vest sa fie oleaca mai destupati. Cand colo constat o mare constipatie intelectuala. Ar trebui un laxativ cerebral.
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study_nature
post May 28 2010, 08:49 AM
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Tot din Advent Hope:
QUOTE
Surely there will be some interesting discussions at this summer’s General Conference. I hope that the session will clarify the denomination’s stance on creation, so there is no ambiguity.
{eu am bolduit cuvantul "hope"}

Desi nu am asteptari prea mari de la marele eveniment din vara asta de la Atlanta, cred ca am sa urmaresc cu interes rapoartele oficiale, cele ale canalelor de stiri adventiste si marturiile oamenilor pe care ii cunosc si care vor fi la fata locului.
Daca ma gandesc mai bine, am sa urmaresc sesiunea CG din perioada 23 iunie -3 iulie printre picaturi, intr-un mod nu foarte diferit de modul in care voi urmari Campionatul Mondial de Fotbal din Africa de Sud, care va avea loc intre 11 iunie si 11 iulie. smile.gif
Mentionez ca nu sunt microbist, nu stiu ce se intampla in campionatul intern, n-am vazut nici macar finala Ligii Campionilor UEFA, despre care am aflat, la fel ca Poli, ca a avut loc sambata trecuta; dar Campionatul Mondial este un spectacol care m-a atras si in anii trecuti, asa ca n-am sa dezic tocmai acum de bunu-mi obicei.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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icsicsics
post May 28 2010, 08:57 AM
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QUOTE (kla @ May 28 2010, 11:31 AM) *
Ma asteptam ca cei mai de la vest sa fie oleaca mai destupati. Cand colo constat o mare constipatie intelectuala. Ar trebui un laxativ cerebral.


iegzista si aici iecsplicatii...


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"monstrul ratiunii naste somn".
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study_nature
post May 28 2010, 09:19 AM
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Niste opinii deosebit de pertinente si lucide din partea unei persoane avizate:

QUOTE
I believe the tea party movement and radical right-wing politics is affecting our beloved church, not only in belief but in tactics that have no place among Christians. If you care about Truth, I suggest you dig a bit deeper than either Shane Hilde or the Michigan Conference have done.

Christ tells us they will know us by our love, not by our commitment to a seven literal historical, consecutive, contiguous 24-hour day week of creation 6,000 years ago which is NOT in Genesis no matter how much the fundamentalist wing of the church would like to see it there.

Fundamental Belief No. 6 uses Biblical language to which we can all agree; once you start interpreting it according to anyone's preference you begin to cut out members who have a different interpretation. I wholeheartedly affirm Scripture, but NOT the extra-Biblical interpretation of the Michigan Conference. Since when is salvation by correct knowledge anyway?
{bolduirea imi apartine}

Sursa: Spectrum Blog, postarea lui Lawrence Geraty, care este "president emeritus of La Sierra University. In 2007, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger named him to the California Postsecondary Education Commission".

Tot pe site-ul Spectrum, in lunga si impresionanta lista de autori care au scris pentru ei, se detaliaza ca:
QUOTE
Lawrence T. Geraty helped found the Association of Adventist Forums while in graduate school at Harvard in the 1960s. His discipline is archaeology, which he taught for thirteen years at the Seventh-day Adventist Theological Seminary at Andrews University. He was president of Atlantic Union College from 1985 to 1993, and has been president of La Sierra University since then. He retires in 2007 from the presidencies of La Sierra University and the American Schools of Oriental Research (the professional society for North American archaeologists who work in the Middle East), and from the chairmanship of the Greater Riverside, California, Chambers of Commerce.

In plus, pe site-ul guvernamental (.gov) spre care v-am trimis cu acest link se scrie ca "Mr. Geraty's most impressive accomplishments has been his ability to remain active as an archaeologist and churchman while serving as President of La Sierra University." Toata stima pentru el, mai ales ca vad ca are PhD-ul in Hebrew Bible and Biblical Archaeology obtinut la Harvard University. Am mai auzit despre el si inainte, dar nu stiam ca este/ar putea fi un urmas demn al lui Siegfried Horn, in memoria caruia a si publicat A Tribute to Siegfried H. Horn, March 17, 1908-November 28, 1993: In Memoriam.

De ce nu luam mai mult aminte la spusele occidentalilor cu scaun la cap printre care se pare ca se numara si Geraty?


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Jun 6 2010, 06:07 PM
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Alumnii si studentii de la La Sierra University iau atitudine fata de atacurile venite din partea anumitor cercuri. Exemple ilustrative: acesta scrisoare deschisa aparuta in Spectrum si aceasta pagina pe Facebook (La Sierra Loved Me).


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"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Jun 18 2010, 07:53 PM
Post #19


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Subiectul libertatii academice la adventisti revine in atentie cu inca doua elemente actuale din acelasi studiu de caz adeseori reincalzit, situatia de la La Sierra University:

Poemul unui absolvent avandu-i drept protagonisti pe administratorii de la Conferinta Michigan;

Verdictul pe care un profesor asociat de istorie bisericeasca de la Andrews University se hazardeaza sa-l pronunte cu privire la LSU (de notat este si faptul ca incearca sa se ofere raspunsuri si unor ingrijorari citate si de noi la acest topic).


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"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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skeptic
post Oct 11 2010, 04:24 PM
Post #20


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Oare cum am putea interpreta asta?


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"I want the truth!" "You can't handle the truth!"
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