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Evolutie, evolutionism, evolutionism teist, Darwin: Etern ereziarh sau Sfant protector al adevarului?
Despre originea vietuitoarelor
Care varianta reuseste sa va convinga mai mult decat celelalte ca reflecta realitatea?
Creationismul (incluzand aici Intelligent Design si alte interpretari incluse in mod obisnuit sub umbrela creationismului) [ 14 ] ** [42.42%]
Evolutionismul (asa cum este formulat in zilele noastre) [ 10 ] ** [30.30%]
Un hibrid intre primele doua teorii (cum sunt si formele in care este cunoscut evolutionismul teist) [ 5 ] ** [15.15%]
Alta teorie (nenumita mai sus, insuficient cunoscuta pe scara larga, sau de fabricatie proprie) [ 4 ] ** [12.12%]
Total Votes: 38
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sisif
post Sep 8 2010, 03:13 PM
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ma cam seaca felul in care redacteaza stirile astia de la ST. nu-i prima oara.
oricum, pentru cine vrea sa citeasca mai pe larg parerea lui hitch, aici e articolul lui.


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study_nature
post Oct 18 2010, 04:21 PM
Post #122


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Unul dintre motivele pentru care imi place metoda stiintifica este acela ca nu doar permite, ci incurajeaza testarea predictiilor facute pe baza unui model propus anterior.
Tocmai am citit despre un experiment recent ale carui rezultate confirma una dintre predictiile lui Darwin, cea numita ipoteza naturalizarii.


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"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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Martin Luther
post Oct 30 2010, 05:52 PM
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Baieti, poate ma ajutati un pic. L-am auzit mai demult pe Edi cum vorbea despre datarea cu gps-ul a oaselor de dinozauri, ca fiind o datare serioasa, avand in vedere teoria relativitatii lui Einstein. Cine poate sa-mi spune de unde a scos-o pe-asta? Vreun link, ceva? Cum se dateaza cu gps-ul? Eu inca nu am auzit si ma intereseaza chestia. Thanks.


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polihronu
post Oct 31 2010, 08:07 PM
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Ma indoiesc ca ai auzit bine. Cel mult, Edi a avut un lapsus linguae. Bineinteles, exista si posibilitatea sa nu fiu eu la curent cu cele mai recente metode de datare smile.gif Edi pomeneste de regula GPS-ul ca demonstratie a teoriei relativitatii, nicidecum ca tehnica de datare.


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"Onestitatea intelectuala este o conditie necesara a fericirii" - Paine
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Martin Luther
post Nov 7 2010, 07:17 PM
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E posibil poli sa fi avut un lapsus linguae, nu zic nu...dar de zis, a zis-o clar si raspicat la O&P intr-o emisiune despre evolutie cu cezar, altfel n-as fi scos-o io din burta. Asa ca daca tot ai acces la el mai usor decat mine, fa bine ptr mine si intreaba-l daca a fost vreo scapare sau chiar are vreo dovada in sensul asta...cu datarea prin gps!?? Thanks


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Ianis
post Nov 8 2010, 06:39 AM
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N-ar fi mai simplu sa aduci referinta directa: emisiunea si minutul? Altfel riscam sa facem analiza literara pe amintiri


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study_nature
post Nov 11 2010, 10:40 AM
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Urmand unul dintre multele link-uri pe care le pune CJ pe O2, am dat de o postare in care este prezentat un studiu care sustine faptul ca, din punctul de vedere al convingerilor in privinta originilor, in Europa crestinii sunt mai liberali decat coreligionarii lor din alte continente:



E drept, trend-ul rezultatelor ar putea fi dat de selectarea respondentilor, dar, deoarece articolul sursa are disponibil gratuit doar rezumatul, nu putem sa stim prea multe despre metologia studiului.


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"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Nov 11 2010, 10:52 PM
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QUOTE
The foremost obstacle standing in the way of the public's acceptance of evolutionary theory is not a dearth of common sense. Instead, it is the public's erroneous belief that common sense is a dependable guide to evaluating the natural world.
(...)
Yet natural science is replete with hundreds of examples demonstrating that common sense is frequently misleading. The world seems flat rather than round. The sun seems to revolve around Earth rather than vice-versa. Objects in motion seem to slow down on their own accord, when in fact they remain in motion unless opposed by a countervailing force.

QUOTE
The human brain evolved to increase the probability that the genes of the body it inhabits make their way into subsequent generations. It did not evolve to infer general principles about the operation of the natural world, let alone to understand itself. It also did not evolve to comprehend vast expanses of time, such as the unimaginable tens or hundreds of millions of years over which biological systems evolved.


Sursa: Why Scientists Shouldn’t Be Surprised by the Popularity of Intelligent Design by Scott O. Lilienfeld (associate professor of psychology at Emory University and Editor of the Scientific Review of Mental Health Practice - o revista de specialitate care pare foarte promitatoare - poate cei care se pricep la subiectul psiho si sanatate mentala ne-ar putea spune cat de apreciata este in domeniul ei).


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"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Nov 14 2010, 03:04 PM
Post #129


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Trade-offs! Sau in limbaj mioritic - compromisuri! Acesta este unul dintre termenii cheie pentru a intelege "de ce" organismele biologice sunt asa cum sunt.
Ca ilustratie aveti rezumatul unui studiu aparut nu demult in revista Science, Fitness Correlates of Heritable Variation in Antibody Responsiveness in a Wild Mammal:

QUOTE
A functional immune system is important for survival in natural environments, where individuals are frequently exposed to parasites. Yet strong immune responses may have fitness costs if they deplete limited energetic resources or cause autoimmune disease. We have found associations between fitness and heritable self-reactive antibody responsiveness in a wild population of Soay sheep. The occurrence of self-reactive antibodies correlated with overall antibody responsiveness and was associated with reduced reproduction in adults of both sexes. However, in females, the presence of self-reactive antibodies was positively associated with adult survival during harsh winters. Our results highlight the complex effects of natural selection on immune responsiveness and suggest that fitness trade-offs may maintain immunoheterogeneity, including genetic variation in autoimmune susceptibility.


Un comentariu destul de bun al semnificatiilor rezultatelor articolului apare pe site-ul The Scientist.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Nov 16 2010, 07:30 PM
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O opinie clarvazatoare la care subscriu in mare parte:

QUOTE
(...)
The primary reason that the Adventist faith tradition officially must support the ancient Hebrew world view about "the beginning" is because Ellen G. White believed that and incorporated that idea into her master metanarrative--the "Great Controversy."

Of course, this is only my personal opinion. It takes large religious institutions hundreds of years to make even small adjustments in their corporate theological systems. They have a lot invested in maintaining a given theological system. Some religious organizations can never bring themselves to make any changes--or to admit they have, even if they have. Once a specific theological idea--such as a recent creation in seven, literal, contiguous days--gets grafted onto and fixed within a master theological metanarrative or world view, it is extremely difficult, perhaps impossible, for a faith community to admit that some misunderstandings about the details of that metanarrative is, from a factual perspective, wrong, even in the face of massive, empirical evidence to the contrary. This is especially difficult if its founding prophetic figure was responsible for creating the problem. This seems to be a reality no matter how long ago, under what conditions, and for what set of reasons the misunderstanding was generated. Typically, that faith tradition invests massive amounts of its resources to maintain its master world view--it must "save face" at all costs. Even having an open, honest dialogue on the topic in question becomes painful and must result in an affirmation of the traditional view[.] Any other outcome is unthinkable.

For a religious system born in a fundamental mistake--the "Great Disappointment"--it is particularly ironic that admitting "We were wrong" is so difficult to admit. Maintaining the organizational and theological system without change becomes the organization's principal purpose for existing. (...)

Sursa: Adventist Today; Autor: Ervin Taylor, Ph.D., professor emeritus of anthropology at the University of California, Riverside, and executive publisher of Adventist Today. Dr. Taylor blogs on the creation/evolution divide, science & religion, ethics, and Adventist history/theology.

Ce argumente pro si contra ati aduce voi la ideile prezentate mai sus?


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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sisif
post Dec 12 2010, 02:56 AM
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The Advent of Evolutionary Christianity

poate veti gasi ceva sa va placa pe-acolo. sint citeva nume interesante.
pe pagina de download le puteti asculta/descarca pe masura ce apar.


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thrak
post Dec 17 2010, 05:38 PM
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Salutare tuturor!

Am gasit printre cautarile mele un site interesant. Poate unii dintre voi l-au vizitat deja.

Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History

rubrica

Human Fossils

Ce facem ? bagam capul in nisip sau privim realitatea in fata. Pentru multi adventisti "bine crescuti" toate astea sunt "FAKE-uri". Dar oare sunt FAKE-uri? Cred ca merita analizat.


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study_nature
post Dec 18 2010, 10:55 PM
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Bine-ai revenit, thrak!

Am intrat si eu candva pe site-ul celor de la Smithsonian la sectiunea despre originile lui Homo Sapiens, dar nu am citit decat destul de putin atunci. Sper sa intru mai in adancime cu ocazia asta. Mai scrie-ne cand gasesti ceva care iti da de gandit.


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"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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sisif
post Dec 20 2010, 07:38 PM
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probabil ati citit deja de recentul sondaj gallup.
oricum, sa-l pomenim si aici.



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study_nature
post Dec 20 2010, 09:46 PM
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multumesc, sisif, nu-l vazusem inca.

orice ar zice unii, mie mi se par semnificative si urmatoarele cifre:



--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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polihronu
post Dec 20 2010, 09:54 PM
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Da, e remarcabil ce poate face chiar si "some college" smile.gif


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"Omul care spune adevarul din cinism este un mincinos" - Bonhoeffer
"Onestitatea intelectuala este o conditie necesara a fericirii" - Paine
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study_nature
post Jan 9 2011, 11:12 AM
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Iata una dintre situatiile in care adeziunea la evolutionism scade in favoarea ID-ului.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Feb 11 2011, 10:23 PM
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Edi Constantinescu m-a stimulat sa ma documentez despre transferul genetic lateral. Vezi aici.


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Feb 25 2011, 03:32 PM
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Se pare ca organismele nu au evoluat intotdeauna in directia unei complexitati sporite (e.g. de la unicelularitate la pluricelularitate), dupa cum se poate concluziona din acest articol prezentat aici:

QUOTE
Multicellular evolution is not linear

New genetic analyses show that multicellularity was gained -- and lost -- several times in the blue-green algae
(...)
If organisms always evolved towards greater complexity, as evolutionary biologists have traditionally thought, the unicellular cyanobacteria should be more similar to each other than to the multicellular cyanobacteria, Schirrmeister said. But this isn't what they found. Instead, the relationship between uni- and multi-cellular cyanobacteria is a complicated evolutionary web.


Mai pe larg, si facand referire la mai multe cercetari, aici. Din aceasta ultima sursa preiau urmatoarea schema si video-ul despre multicelularitate de mai jos:


QUOTE
The evolution of Volvox
The volvocine algae are a model system for studying the evolution of multicellularity, as the group contains extant species ranging from the unicellular Chlamydomonas to a variety of colonial species and the full-fledged multicellular Volvox varieties. Comparing the biology of these organisms, evolutionary developmental biologist David Kirk of the Washington University in St. Louis proposed 12 steps that were key to this transition. Here are some highlights that were key to this transition (BioEssays, 27:299-310, 2005).
LUCY READING-IKKANDA (DIAGRAMS AND CELLS); SOURCE: DAVID L. KIRK


CreatureCast - Multicellularity from Casey Dunn on Vimeo.



--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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study_nature
post Mar 2 2011, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE
How fleeting are the wishes and efforts of man! how short his time! and consequently how poor will be his results, compared with those accumulated by Nature during whole geological periods!
—Charles Darwin, On The Origin of Species (1859)

via The Scientist


--------------------
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, from Paris, August 10, 1787; Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York: Library of America, 1994, pp. 900-906.
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